outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
Just one last thing (i also apologize for being on this thread)
The apostle Paul said this in corinthians.
14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.” (NIV)
If our preaching is false in anyway surely this would apply to us?
outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
The book “God’s Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing for Man’s Good” Published by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania 1974.
on page 9 mentions
Eph3:11. Where it says “This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord.” (NLT)
The book states. The Emphatic Diaglott, published by the newspaper editor Benjamin Wilson, contained the reading: “according to a plan of the ages, which he formed.” A number of other recent Bible translations could be cited that choose to render the Greek text in this way.
This plan of the ages or God's eternal purpose of which the book spoke related to the 7th creative day and the passing of 6000 years in the 7000 year long day starting in 4026 BCE.
The Watchtower of August 15 th 1974 Page 507 in the footnote
"In 1943 the Watch Tower Society's book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and place the end of 6,000 years of man's existence in the 1970's.
Djeggnog, my grandfather was a young man in the first world war when Russell was telling people
The Divine Plan of the Ages Page 41
“The Scriptural time-proofs which we have considered show that this trouble was due to date from the time of Christ’s second advent (October, 1874), when the judging of the nations would commence, under the enlightening influences of the Day of the Lord.”
My father was a young man when Rutherford was telling people
Light, Book One, by Judge J.F. Rutherford. Published in 1930 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Commentary on the book of Revelation.”
"and, showing that the antitypical jubilee must begin in 1925, the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and that the time had come when the people should go free. The year 1925 marked the due time for the great jubilee, and the announcement was made in due course. But the world rulers failed to heed God’s message and to “proclaim liberty throughout all the land”.”
I was a young man when,
The “God’s Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing for Man’s Good” (1974) Page 51 says,
“Evening of the Seventh Creative Day begins, 4026 B.C.E”
I knew my Grandfather, we overlapped. One generation right?
Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe these things am I right? but we were preaching them as part of God's plan. Remember this is what you said to me.
“I'm going to tell you sternly that just as necessity if laid upon me to preach the good news of the kingdom of God, it is also laid upon every dedicated brother and sister in Christ to be declaring the good news fully, not just the parts of it that may be convenient for you, all of the counsel of God." Even if you should do so against your will, a stewardship has been entrusted to you just the same, for woe to you, @The Finger, if you should not now be declaring the good news”
Do you think Djeggnog that I need to join you in preaching these things or should I let my conscience decide?
outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
The moral of that story Djeggnog is you shouldn't drink Manhattans and type at the same time. ( I missed the 30 minutes and lost half of what i was saying) Oh well!
outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
Djeggnog,
"Contrary to what things apostate Christendom preaches, Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to preach what things God's word urges all mankind to consider before the end of the system of things arrives, such as the importance of their becoming reconciled with God through Christ by exercising faith in his name as Redeemer, and getting baptized, apart from which no one will be saved. (Mark 16:16)"
As much as I would like to agree with you I can't. I think what Jehovah's Witnesses history shows is something more than this.
This is what it says on the official JW web site.
Jehovah's Witnesses? Yes, that is the way they refer to themselves. It is a descriptive name, indicating that they bear witness concerning Jehovah, his Godship, and his purposes.”
This part about "and his purposes"
In 1974 this book was published.
“God’s Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing for Man’s Good”
Published by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania 1974.
This book was the one that had the date of the beginning of the 7th creative day as 4026 BCE, and made mention of the book Divine Plan of the Ages.
It said this on Page 10.
“This book attained a circulation of more than six million copies, in a number of languages. Its circulation ceased in the year 1929 C.E. For one thing, it focused the attention of its readers on the Bible and showed that the Living God is progressive.”
The Watchtower of August 15 th 1974 Page 507 in the footnote said.
"In 1943 the Watch Tower Society's book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and place the end of 6,000 years of man's existence in the 1970's.
Do you see a connection Djeggnog? Do you see what I mean?
i have a presidential rolex with a diamond bezel that's a beauty and a couple of rings and that's all i ever wear.
i never liked chains or bracelets on me.. what's your best piece of jewelry?
?.
I dont have any jewelry.
outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
Djeggnog,
In your post you say
“While Rutherford and others had speculated back that the beginning of the antitypical jubilee would occur in 1925, which jubilee corresponded to Jesus' 1,000-year reign, but this wasn't a prediction, nor a case of misleading 7 million people (or whatever number of Witnesses there were back in 1925). What was hoped in the lead up to 1925 was merely an expectation that was unrealized.”
What do you think about what was written in ” Light, Book One, by Judge J.F. Rutherford. Published in 1930 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Commentary on the book of Revelation.” ?(This I found on the internet) (Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly)
Page 135
“Exactly ten years, to the day, from the beginning of the World War the message “Civilization Doomed” was delivered in support of the “Indictment”, which time marked the last typical jubilee; and, showing that the antitypical jubilee must begin in 1925, the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and that the time had come when the people should go free. The year 1925 marked the due time for the great jubilee, and the announcement was made in due course. But the world rulers failed to heed God’s message and to “proclaim liberty throughout all the land”.”
This was published 5 years after 1925.
In the book “Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand!” Page 138.
In commenting on Revelation 8:10,11 Where it says “And the third angel blew his trumpet.”
It says, “No doubt at the direction of the angel that sounded the third trumpet, a forceful resolution was there adopted and later 50 million copies were distributed as a tract. It was published under the title Ecclesiastics Indicted.”
By reading the “Light, Book one” we find the message given at this convention “Civilization Doomed” In support of the “Indictment” which was published as a tract (pictured on Page 141 of the book Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand) was tied to the 1925 Jubilee teaching.
“the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and the time had come when the people should go free” (Light Book One)
Do you think that this was at the direction of an angel as suggested in the “Revelation Its Grand Climax Hand!”?
theology is the study of religion and religions are human systems of spirituality.
it could then be said that theology is the study of the applications of human spirituality.
human spirituality is a chosen way of life.
My daughter could have studied History or English at University, but she chose Theology (Christian) and got a first class degree. She is now studying for her Ph.D. in Theology. She reads History and Philosophy and Politics one of her supervisors is the head of the English. She has a fairly broad knowledge The University recently awarded her a full scholarship with candidates applying who study many subjects. There are I think about 2-3 billion people who claim a belief in Christianity and are found in my walks of life, some in governments. I think its over 4 billion people of the worlds population believe in Christianity or are Jewish or Muslim and about 85% believe in God. I think Theology is relevant for today. Besides my son is studying for a Science degree with the hopes of becoming a Medical Doctor and so it makes for interesting conversation at the Christmas dinner table.
do you tend to blame your problems on the fact that you were a jehovah's witness?.
I said to my wife today that we could have cleared our mortgage within 2 years of moving into our house easily in the eighties. The only reason i didnt was i truly believed i wouldn't be here in this system in 2011.
I probably will never clear it now.
(It wasn't because I was materialistic but that I didn't want to be)
download now if you want to save this photo!
it will not remain online for very long!.
nh knorr president of watchtower society chicago 1955. source: detroit news photo archive.
was that at comisky park? why won't it b on line 4 long?
if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.
using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.
do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?
Jehovah's Witnesses no longer use the book The Truth Shall Make You Free. In the event you didn't know, we don't use the Vindication, Light or the Time is at Hand books either; older publications are retired when some of things contained in them become stale
Stale, no longer fresh and pleasant to eat.
"Without previous knowledge or design on the part of any one connected with The Watchtower, the time for the Columbus (Ohio) convention was fixed for July, 1924. Exactly ten years , to the day, from the beginning of the World War the message “Civilization Doomed” was delivered in support of the “Indictment”, which time marked the last typical jubilee; and, showing that the antypical jubilee must begin in 1925, the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and that the time had come when the people should go free. The year 1925 marked the due time for the great jubilee, and the announcement was made in due course. But the world rulers failed to heed God’s message and to “proclaim liberty throughout all the land”."
"Light, Book One, by Judge J.F. Rutherford. Published in 1930 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society." Page 135.
I think stale is the wrong word.
